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COMMONS DISCUSSION PAGES (index) Commons Help desk Village pump (general discussion) Copyright Proposals Technical Graphics and photography discussion Photography critiques Image improvement Illustration workshop Map workshop Photography workshop Video and sound workshop Categories for discussion Undeletion requests Deletion requests Volunteer Response Team/Noticeboard Translators' noticeboard Work requests for bots Contact administrators Vandalism User problems (Dispute resolution) Blocks and protections Bureaucrats' noticeboard CheckUser requests Oversight requests Telegram IRC webchat Commons mailing list (archive) Commons' bugs on Phabricator Welcome to the Village pump This page is used for discussions of the operations, technical issues, and policies of Wikimedia Commons. Recent sections with no replies for 7 days and sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=--~~~~}} may be archived; for old discussions, see the archives; the latest archive is Commons:Village pump/Archive/2024/01. Please note: If you want to ask why unfree/non-commercial material is not allowed at Wikimedia Commons or if you want to suggest that allowing it would be a good thing, please do not comment here. It is probably pointless. One of Wikimedia Commons’ core principles is: "Only free content is allowed." This is a basic rule of the place, as inherent as the NPOV requirement on all Wikipedias. Have you read our FAQ? For changing the name of a file, see Commons:File renaming. Any answers you receive here are not legal advice and the responder cannot be held liable for them. If you have legal questions, we can try to help but our answers cannot replace those of a qualified professional (i.e. a lawyer). Your question will be answered here; please check back regularly. Please do not leave your email address or other contact information, as this page is widely visible across the internet and you are liable to receive spam. Purposes which do not meet the scope of this page: Please do not make deletion requests here: use the relevant process for it instead. For technical support and graphics talks (PNG, SVG, GIF, etc.), please post on the Graphics village pump. To ask for image improvement, see: Graphic Lab/Photography workshop for photographs. Graphic Lab/Map workshop for maps. Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop for other illustrations. To ask for video or audio improvement, see Commons:Graphic Lab/Video and sound workshop. For translation requests, please post at Commons:Requests for translation. For media requests, please post at Commons:File requests. Search archives:       Start a new discussion

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Village pump and gaslight at a meeting place in the village of Amstetten, Germany. [add]

Centralized discussion See also: Village pump/Proposals   ■ Archive Should PD-CQ Roll Call be used for recent images? (5 January 2024) Technical needs survey (17 December 2023) When does PDART apply to textile works? (15 November 2023) Does this image contain "love hearts"? (17 August 2023) Overhaul of categories by period (5 December 2022) Version of Saudi flag to use (11 July 2022) Concern regarding revocability of KOGL licenses (22 December 2021) Should deleting content from your own talk page be forbidden? (11 November 2021) Revise the COM:FOP Sweden section (1 February 2021) Change technical name of LRs to license-reviewer from image-reviewer(2 November 2023) User talk:湯崩正海#Image Tagging File:青島ビール放尿動画事件.jpgとUser talk:湯崩正海#File:青島ビール放尿動画事件.jpgで議論しています。皆様のご意見を募集しています。是非、ご参加ください。(2 November 2023) Template: View   ■ Discuss    ■ Edit   ■ Watch

	SpBot archives all sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=~~~~}} after 1 day and sections whose most recent comment is older than 7 days.

November 26

Special:UncategorizedCategories

We now have 2,544 uncategorized (parentless) categories, down from about 8,000 in the beginning of September. At this point, most of the "low-hanging fruit" is taken care of. User:Billinghurst and I have done the bulk of the cleanup, although a few others have also helped in various degrees. We could definintely use more help, most of which does not require an admin as such.

• Most of the remaining listings are legitimate categories, with content, but lacking parent categories. They need parent categories and they need incoming interwiki links from any relevant Wikidata item.
  • A disproportionate number of these would best be handled by someone who knows Hungarian or Estonian.
• Some categories just need to be turned into cat redirects ({{Cat redirect}} and have their content moved accordingly.
• A few categories listed here will prove to be fine as they stand; the tool messed up and put them in the list because it didn't correctly understand that a template had correctly given them parent categories. Many of these are right near the front of the (alphabetical) list, and involve dates.
• Some categories probably either call for obvious renaming or should be nominated for COM:CFD discussions.
• Some empty categories (not a lot of those left, but new ones happen all the time) need to be deleted.
• At the end of the alphabetical listing (5th and 6th page) are about 75 categories that have names in non-Latin alphabets. It would be great if people who read the relevant writing systems could help with these. Probably most of these are candidates for renaming.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give. - Jmabel ! talk 03:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused about something @Jmabel: I checked the page and some of the categories on there are for example Category:April 2016 in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté (through 2023), but these were created years ago in some instances and already had parent categories from the start. How do categories like that end up there? ReneeWrites (talk) 02:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@ReneeWrites: Insufficient follow-through and patrolling, combined with out of control back end processes.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 02:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@ReneeWrites: Actually, in this case this appears to be some sort of flaw in the software that creates the Special page. As I wrote a couple of days ago, "A few categories listed here will prove to be fine as they stand; the tool messed up and put them in the list because it didn't correctly understand that a template had correctly given them parent categories. Many of these are right near the front of the (alphabetical) list, and involve dates." It looks like today's run added a bunch of these false positives and that (unlike the previous bunch) they are more scattered through the list. I believe all of the 100+ files that use Template:Month by year in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté are on today's list; none of these were there three days earlier. That probably has something to do with User:Birdie's edits to yesterday to Template:Month by year in Bourgogne-Franche-Comté; those are complicated enough that I have no idea what in particular might have confused the software. The categories still look fine from a normal user point of view, but the software that creates Special:UncategorizedCategoriesn is somehow confused.

Other than that: we're a couple of hundred fixed or deleted categories closer to where we'd want to be, compared to a couple of days ago. - Jmabel ! talk 04:23, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Server-purges should fix this but apparently it doesn't. Some categories that didn't appear last time after purging the cache have disappeared now so I'm more confused as to what the problem could be since the iirc the refresh time was after some pages were updated (it has problems when pages get all their categories from a template). There should probably be a phrabricator issue about this, albeit it's possible things work fine once there are always just a small number of cats there which seems increasingly feasible. Prototyperspective (talk) 12:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jeff G., could you explain what "... out of control back end processes" means, so I can understand your comment? --Ooligan (talk) 16:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ooligan: As I understand it, there are processes that run on WMF servers that run too long or get caught up in race conditions or whatever, and that get terminated after running too long. I think updating this special page may be one such process, sometimes. Certainly, updating the read / not read status of stuff on my watchlist seems that way, especially when using this new reply tool. Turning off the big orange bar before displaying my user talk page would be helpful, too. <end rant>   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 19:26, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jeff G., thank you. --Ooligan (talk) 19:44, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ooligan: You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 20:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Even with those 100 or so "Bourgogne-Franche-Comté" false positives, we are now down to 2079. Again, we could really use help from people who know languages with non-Latin scripts, all of which are grouped toward the end of the list. Also, Hungarian and Estonian, scattered throughout. - Jmabel ! talk 23:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Now down to 1905, again including 100+ false positives. Still really need help from people who read Estonian, Hungarian, or languages with non-Latin scripts. - Jmabel ! talk 21:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

And now to 1701, again with the same number of false positives and still with the same need for help from people who read Estonian, Hungarian, or languages with non-Latin scripts. Those are probably now the languages for about half of the remaining categories. - Jmabel ! talk 00:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Now 1471, with the same provisos and the same needs for help. - Jmabel ! talk 18:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

We are making major progress. As of today, we are down to 1031 (and seem to be rid of the false positives, so maybe the progress looks more dramatic than it is, but it's still nice). Only a few left in non-Latin alphabets. Still need a bunch of help with Estonian and Hungarian.

Thanks to whoever fixed the "false positives" thing. - Jmabel ! talk 21:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

As of today, we are (amazingly) under 1000, with only two remaining in non-Latin alphabets. 947 as of today. I suspect that anyone who speaks languages from Central and Eastern Europe could still help out considerably here. - Jmabel ! talk 20:22, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

BTW, we are still getting some false positives, e.g. Category:Letters with "e" as diacritic above and other similar categories. This makes me guess we are also getting some false negatives (parentless categories that don't show up in the report). - Jmabel ! talk 20:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. While many uncategorized categories are useless ones that should be deleted, there is indeed some low-hanging fruit in there, including ones that can be linked to an article on a Wikipedia. – b_jonas 18:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

At this point, the remaining categories are probably about 80% or more either simply needing parents, or needing some sort of clarification or merge. Very few are outright deletions. - Jmabel ! talk 19:40, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Progress continues. We are at 777. - Jmabel ! talk 20:43, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

i think we could deploy a bot to monitor this page, send reminders to users who create uncategorised cat pages and add the uncat cats to a maintenance cat.--RZuo (talk) 11:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@RZuo: We have {{subst:Please link images}} for the reminder.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 15:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jeff G.: That's really about categories on images, though, not categories on categories. FWIW, a lot of these happen in one of two ways:

1. a small number of users create a fair number of categories and, as far as I can tell, can't be bothered to learn to do it right, or don't care that they leave a ton of work for others. They are not unaware of the situation: they've been told, but they keep doing it. I could name some names, but I'd rather not.
2. a lot of people seem to think the correct way to get rid of an unused empty category is just to blank it, which of course leaves a parentless category. This group is generally "educable", and for that purpose we have {{How to delete empty categories}}. - Jmabel ! talk 21:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

As of the start of the year we are down to 680; probably 100 of these have been dealt with in the last couple of days but others have doubtless come into this state. The vast majority of these are appropriate categories (mostly for individual people) that just need appropriate parent categories and, in some cases, should be attached to a Wikidata item or have one created. You don't need to be an admin to help out, just good at categorization. - Jmabel ! talk 21:09, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Wow! Down to 456, again leaning heavily toward Central East Europe, especially Hungarian. - Jmabel ! talk 21:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

And down to 190, some of which are doubtless false positives or current CfDs. - Jmabel ! talk 01:33, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

We are now below 100 (89 this morning). It would be great if it can stay down to numbers like this. Eyeballing, I'd say about half of these are recent, and of course things like this are going to keep coming up, but we've caught almost all of the long-time backlog. - Jmabel ! talk 21:13, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment Thanks to everyone who helped cut down this thicket! Josh (talk) 16:40, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

A further update: there are, at most, a handful of remaining long-term uncategorized categories. However, we still get about 30 new ones per day, mostly because people don't understand (or don't choose) to use {{SD}} and instead they blank the category. For what it's worth:

• This is explained at {{How to delete empty categories}}.
• It would be great if someone wants to internationalize that template.
• It should usually be subst'd on the user talk page of the person who has blanked a page; details are on the Template page. - 21:00, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment Also thanks to everyone who helped tackle this blacklog. As of 29 Jan it's still/again at 91 so that really seems to be the number that new empty cats currently flow in. Would be nice to have charts for backlogs (here). Now that this is more or less done, what about these two similar types of categories in need of work:

• Categories with only redcategories (categories that don't yet exist)
• Categories with only Wikidata Infobox categories like "Category:Uses of Wikidata Infobox" (cats set by {{Wikidata Infobox}} – example 2)

Could reports be created for these? I could not find them in Category:Commons category maintenance and they aren't part of the ~completed backlog. The same could be done for these two types of categories. --Prototyperspective (talk) 23:15, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Categories with members, but no parents

more interesting cats for maintenance: Special:WantedCategories.--RZuo (talk) 16:53, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

January 22

CropTool

Is CropTool down again? Rosiestep (talk) 01:01, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I get the error message "Wikimedia Toolforge Error. This Grid Engine web service cannot be reached. Please contact a maintainer of this tool.

Tool maintainers can find more details from the documentation on Wikitech. tools-proxy-06.tools.eqiad.wmflabs; Wouter (talk) 11:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

@Rosiestep and Wouterhagens: The latest is at Commons talk:CropTool#Not working!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 12:37, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Jeff G.. ----Rosiestep (talk) 13:18, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

@Rosiestep: You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 13:21, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

The tool appears to be working again! Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 08:33, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Just for info. Based on phab:T319653, gridengine deprecation date is 14 February 2024. Before that date if it is dead it most likely requires restarting. --Zache (talk) 17:24, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Is someone willing to step up and salvage CropTool?

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T319653

As things stand, Grid engine will go down once and for all in mid-February. Danmichaelo, who maintained CropTool, appears to be incommunicado, possibly due to some drama on en-wiki last year (somewhat more on this at Commons talk:CropTool#Not working! if you want it).

If no one takes over developing CropTool, the tool will simply go dead.

Sources are at https://github.com/danmichaelo/croptool. At a quick skim, they look reasonably well-written, if a bit under-commented. I'm entirely unfamiliar with the Grid Engine (not even what functionality it delivers) and wouldn't offhand know where to begin in determining where are the dependencies on that, which will need replacements; I would presume they must be entirely (or almost entirely) in the PHP. If someone familiar with the Grid Engine could take a look and assess how much of this tool will need to be rewritten, that would be very helpful, even if they are not interested in taking on the work themselves. - Jmabel ! talk 03:42, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've linked this discussion on a couple of Telegram channels, to spread awareness. Meanwhile, I'm in contact with who is doing the GridEngine deprecation, they've been made aware of the problem at least. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 14:28, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not aware of the technical issues here, but this is again another example of how relying on external tools, instead of adding them to our system ends up giving problems. The tool should be a simple button for Commons users, and do the thing on-site. Theklan (talk) 10:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 26

Technical needs survey: Voting open

The voting for our technical needs priority list is open until the 15th of February.

Please vote on the proposals

The proposals with the most support will be the top ones in our priority list used for discussions with the WMF or the official technical wishes. GPSLeo (talk) 09:34, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Why is the list under Commons:Requests_for_comment/Technical_needs_survey#Proposals presented as it is (sausages?) instead of as an unordered list? -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 18:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 27

What is the object in this photo. It is in a Japanese Buddhist temple

I found this object File:Fukagawa Fudoson 2 - Feb 12, 2012.jpg and I want to know what the name of it is in the photo Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 18:50, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

It is called "寄付札" or "寄進銘板" in Japanese, and is the list of contributors to the temple. "昭和四十六年五月吉日" (May of the 46th year of Showa) written in the center of this plate indicates that it is the list contributors in May 1971. Most of being displayed are family names, but there are also first names, shop names possibly, and nighborhood names in case of group contribution. --トトト (talk) 08:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 13:55, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

A nude photo from the 1880s might be of a minor

This photo File:Gabriele D’Annunzio nude on the beach, 1880s.jpg of Gabriele D’Annunzio is only dated as being in the "1880s". He was born on 12 March 1863. On January 1st 1880 he would have been 16. Are there any issues we have with hosting the image?Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 23:19, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

No. It's a very old photo. Why on Earth would there be any issues? --A.Savin 23:54, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@A.Savin I don't feel like there should be an issue. Especially since he is a notable historical figure. But I am not sure about the legality of the image. If the image comes from March 12, 1881 or later it is legal, but it would be good to get the year. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 00:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

So what exactly might make it illegal in your opinion? Merely the fact that there is a nude minor person on the picture? --A.Savin 09:20, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@A.Savin yeah just that. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 17:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Wrong assumption. --A.Savin 18:15, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@Immanuelle Getty dates it to "January 01, 1880", but that may just be ridiculous overspecificity.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 13:00, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

The cited source has a German caption in which the subject writes about it in 1885. Not quite clear from Google Translate whether that is when the photo is taken or sometime afterwards writing a recollection about it. DMacks (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Can someone who is claiming that there is a potential legal issue here please say what legal issue in what country? - Jmabel ! talk 20:54, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

It says the pic is from the 1880s with no exact date. The cited quote was written in 1885, but seems unconnected to the pic.

Are the rights of someone from the 1880s now a serious concern on this platform? Cush (talk) 21:12, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Nope. But the question by Immanuelle, if I understand correctly, was not regarding personality rights, but whether an image of a nude minor person is per se illegal for hosting on Commons. Apparently some people consider any nude image of a child or adolescent automatically child pornography. --A.Savin 21:38, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

@A.Savin yes that is correct the only concern I have with this image is that it may legally constitute child pornography.

He was quite rich and prominent at the time, and well established as an erotic poet. I doubt he would object on personality rights grounds if he was around today. Considering the fact he was really notable in the future, becoming a major literary figure and a dictator tied to the origins of fascism, I believe the image is really historically siginficant. But idk how the age will be treated in different jurisdictions. The image is widely replicated across the internet with seemingly no bans on places like getty and reddit. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (please tag me) 06:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Presumably the question is not what "some people consider". Again: can someone who is claiming that there is a potential legal issue here please say what legal issue in what country? - Jmabel ! talk 22:44, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Given that User:Immanuelle's latest post was placed above my repetition of my question, and that she still hasn't answered my question, I assume she has no intention of answering, so I will make the assumption that we are concerned with U.S. law, since for legal purposes that is where Commons is "located." I'm not a lawyer, but besides the fact that just on internal evidence this is very unlikely to be a picture of someone younger than 18, U.S. concerns with CSAM generally don't extend to images of obvious historical importance. Some over-aggressive prosecutor might try to make a case, and we can never know exactly what some judge would say, but if someone wanted to do that I would say that some photographs by Lewis Carroll (which we host, as far as I know without problems) would make an easier target. And they'd still probably lose in court. - Jmabel ! talk 08:12, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 28

Tram PCC doors

There seems to be a special type of door that as far as I know is only found on PCC type trams. The doorpanels have a complex movement.

• 
  Closed
• 
  Open
• 
  Brussels example
• 
  The Hague
• 
  Marseille
• 
  Saint-Etienne

I asked for dynamic illustration of the movement Illustration_workshop

I have looked at American PCC trams (Canada & US), but they have mostly folding doors. I suspect that the original PCC designs had these door types, but that the tram compagnies replaced with other doors. The only pictures with in America these kind of doors are File:Detroit1.jpg and File:Detroitwoodward&atwater1953.jpg, but they are old. (1950 and 1953) The original drawings File:Tram Los Angeles Railway Co 3.jpg, show an interspace between the two pairs of doorpanels. File:Vari pcc.GIF shows classic folding doors (no interspace), so it probably the door type is not for all original US PCC trams.

Questions:

• Is there any documentation on wat type of door the original PCC designs specified?
• Is there a name for this type of door? (I plan to add a new category to Category:Rail vehicle doors by type.

• Is there a better name for Category:Swiss Einheitswagen type door and is there documentation about these doors. (I have been looking but not found anything yet)
• Are there other types of train doors? (for passengers entry and exit)

I found slam? door opening to the inside File:Queensland Rail ICE door Sunshine Coast P1110422.jpg, but I suspect it is an exception, not worth creating a new category.

Smiley.toerist (talk) 22:30, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

It might be an "inward gliding door". See this animation. DMacks (talk) 06:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have only seen these "inward gliding door"s on low floor buses (or where the heigh difference with platform is minimal). This type of door cannot be combined with internal stairs, without the los of a lot of space. As all old trams these PCC trams had high level floors, above the wheels and bogies. The passengers often had to climb aboard from street level.

Underneath there is a simplified mechanik. It also shows why a simple door would take too much space with the turning circle. The doors are on a lower level than the passenger floor. In crowded conditions the movement area is kept free.

Smiley.toerist (talk) 10:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

A main point of the inward-gliding design appears to be that it does not require substantial floor clearance to interfere with steps. Instead, it mostly tucks to the sides, costing only small curved cut-outs even if steps come very close to the plane of the doorframe. DMacks (talk) 19:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The PCC door is on the same principles as the "inward gliding door", wih only minor differences. The gliding rail is more inward and the doorpanel is not directly connected to the gliding rail, but an extention. The turningpoint is more distant from the doorpanel. The basic movement wil be the same.Smiley.toerist (talk) 16:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 29

Is this game logo covered by PD-textlogo?

A nice clean png of the Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League logo can be found on the official website, would this fall under PD-textlogo? New to this site, so still figuring it all out. DetriaSkies (talk) 18:29, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

With the texture in the letters definitely not. If you create a version without the texture in the letters this would be PD. GPSLeo (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Wiel van der Randen (fotograaf 1897–1949)

L.s. I downloaded high res photo's from Wiel van der randen from https://beeldbank.spaarnestadphoto.com/ and want to upload them on commons on the already existing Category:Photographs by Wiel van der Randen The pictures are somewhat protected in high res but still downloadable. Although they are trying to sell them they are published on their own website and since copyright is expired, ss it ok to upload them on commons? Thanks, Mr.Nostalgic (talk) 20:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC) @TimmieTovenaar Hoi Timmie, daar jij veel vaar het Nationaal Archief gedaan hebt, zou jij hier wat advies kunnen geven?

• I can see no stated basis for their claim of a 2015 copyright. The only thing I could imagine is if these had been in an archive, unpublished, and 2015 was first publication. If that's the case, I believe the Netherlands may give 20 or 25 years of protection (I really don't know much anything about Dutch copyright law, though). If you are confident that copyright has expired, yes, just state the basis clearly and upload. If my remark about possible late publication raises doubts, you might want to ask at Commons:Village pump/Copyright, where there is usually more expertise. - Jmabel ! talk 01:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you very much Jmabel. I will follow your advise and state my question also on the Copyright part of the Village pump.

  Regards, Mr.Nostalgic (talk) 12:11, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Wiel_van_der_Randen_(fotograaf_1897–1949). Multichill (talk) 21:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Question about DR

Do i have post a warning when the image i nominate is NSFW? I assume at least some users read DR's in public--Trade (talk) 23:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Not to say it should be obligatory but a warning template for things like that would be cool to have. Although if it were I'd make it cover just potentially triggering or problematic images in general, not just NSFW ones. Although that would be a good start. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:48, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Do you wanna make the template? Trade (talk) 22:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Generally, the key is the "law of least surprise". Try not to put NSFW images directly in categories where no one would expect them. For example, this is exactly why we have Category:Nude or partially nude people with toothbrushes, so Category:People with toothbrushes needn't directly contain such images. - Jmabel ! talk 01:48, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

What about DR? Trade (talk) 17:40, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

We don't have a hard and fast rule, but warnings like that are almost always a plus. I don't think you particularly need to warn a user when notifying them about their own upload, and sometimes filenames make the matter instantly clear, but again: law of least surprise. - Jmabel ! talk 20:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 30

Sharing a video from Flickr

Hello!
How could I share a video from Flickr? I did a test, but couldn't figure it out. On Flickr, there are a number of high quality and relevant videos with appropriate license. It would be good to figure out how to upload them on Wikimedia.

I tried sharing a video from Flickr but I get an error – "File extension ".jpg" does not match the detected MIME type of the file (video/x-m4v)" (printscreen here) However, there are videos originating from Flickr on Wikimedia, for example:

• example1
• example2

I found a couple of Wikipedia bots doing Flickr uploads, but I one is inactive (presentation page) and the other one does not work for me. It asks to login, I do, but it never logs me in. I tried different browsers too. There must be a better way. Learn new things in 2024 (talk) 02:10, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Learn new things in 2024: if you asked for your video to be uploaded to a filename with an extension ending in .jpg, then that should not work. But more to the point: I don't think any of these tools you mention are be able to bring an MP4 video from Flickr to Commons in any useful way; we don't support that format (please see COM:Video for what formats we do support). You might try video2commons, which can convert formats on the fly. I won't say it's the most stable tool in the world, but it usually works. - Jmabel ! talk 03:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Learn new things in 2024: I tried with COM:F2C and also got 'File extension ".mp4" does not match the detected MIME type of the file (video/x-m4v).' I was able to upload File:Vilnius Light Festival 2024 (January 25–28 from 6 PM to 11 PM) -1.webm with COM:V2C.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 22:21, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Text about transliteration options in categories

User:Бучач-Львів add to categories (example Revision #847091487) text about transliteration options. Are such clarifications needed here, on Commons? Микола Василечко (talk) 21:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I think the part about the variant not corresponding to well-known transliteration methods should not be there, but if the other variants are at all widely used in English then they are probably worth mentioning. "Yulian Bachynsky" more reflects what would have been normal for transliterating Russian (and I'd also guess that his given name would often appear in English as "Julian", not mentioned here). I understand that present-day nationalist sentiment leaves a lot of Ukrainians unhappy that certain Ukrainian names entered English largely via Russian, but that is in fact exactly what happened. - Jmabel ! talk 22:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Jmabel. you call the national tradition nationalism - and this is wrong. Every nation has its own national traditions - English, French, Germans, etc., and Ukrainians have them too. --Бучач-Львів (talk) 08:18, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

That's why I'm writing these different versions of transliteration, because at the moment I see a certain chaos. That is precisely why the amount of this chaos was smaller, and it is necessary to write different variants of transliteration of the names and surnames of Ukrainians. Jmabel. Let's take the first and last name of the Prime Minister of Ukraine Valerii Pustovoitenko or OUN leader Category:Andriy Melnyk. This is a pretty good example of the chaos I wrote about. --Бучач-Львів (talk) 08:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Jmabel. another important detail is the transfer of a soft sign and apostrophe in Ukrainian names and surnames. For example, the Ukrainian surnames Горинь and Горин are often transliterated the same way - Horyn. And if you specify different variants of transliteration, then the picture becomes clearer. --Бучач-Львів (talk) 08:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Jmabel. Regarding Ukrainian and Russian and sources, I don't agree with you for the reason that the Wiki repository as a constituent element of Wikipedia is an encyclopedia where things must be named accurately. That is, for example, John is not Jean, not Jan, not Giovanni, not Ivan. Moreover, the "Russian" names of Kyiv and Odesa were changed to Ukrainian ones in the English Wikipedia. --Бучач-Львів (talk) 11:32, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not objecting to indicating what would be the conventions used nowadays to properly represent the name in English. I am saying that for people who lived in a different era, and were commonly referred to in English by a different translation/transliteration than we might use today, we normally stick with the established form, and that is not some sort of error. E.g. we refer to "Chiang Kai-shek", not "Jiǎng Jièshí", or "Leon Trotsky", not "Lev Trotsky". - Jmabel ! talk 21:44, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

The example you cite of Jean does not apply because French uses the Latin alphabet. Russian/Ukrainian use the Cyrillic alphabet, which is not allowed in running English text. So if Jean were a Cyrillic name, then we cannot use Jean; we must use either Jon or John, and the debate is over which one to use. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 23:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Grid engine fails

another one, https://newbie-uploads.toolforge.org/ is linked from Special:NewFiles but now dead. haha. RZuo (talk) 23:34, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

January 31

Upload issues

Is anyone also experiencing upload errors? I get "error" or a "file in stash is missing" and so on. --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 15:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Inappropriate caption

Last week, IP user User:196.188.120.153 edited the English caption for File:Ethiopia Plate of portable altar.jpg to say "ITS OFFENSIVE AND WILL BE PUNISHED". This is clearly not acceptable, but I'm not sure what should be done. There are religious sensibilities involved here. For some context, see this discussion on the English Wikipedia help desk, and recent edit summaries in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tabot&action=history .--ColinFine (talk) 15:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@ColinFine: You can raise your issue here: Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 15:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Following a report to AN, I've semiprotected the page. Abzeronow (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Last days to vote on the Charter for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello all,

I am reaching out to you today to remind you that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) charter will close on 2 February 2024. Community members may cast their vote and provide comments about the charter via SecurePoll. Those of you who voiced your opinions during the development of the UCoC Enforcement Guidelines will find this process familiar.

The current version of the U4C charter is on Meta-wiki with translations available.

Read the charter, go vote and share this note with others in your community. I can confidently say the U4C Building Committee looks forward to your participation.

On behalf of the UCoC Project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 16:59, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

February 01

{{Self}} has been updated

{{Self}} has been revised today, but there seems to be a minor disorder when using with {{Cc-zero}}. See File:栗之浦ドック 第二工場.jpg. --トトト (talk) 02:50, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, what is the "minor disorder"? - Jmabel ! talk 20:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Fixed by Jarekt (1). Cheers. --トトト (talk) 11:17, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Ordering of files in categories

Hi all, how do the files get ordered for display in e.g. Category:Military uniforms of Russia by Nicholas I by Vinkhuijzen collection?

On the first page, the sequence 'Russia, 1826 (NYPL b14896507-441385).tiff' to 'Russia, 1826 (NYPL b14896507-441397).tiff' is interrupted by 'Russia, 1828 (NYPL b14896507-441478).jpg' followed by 'Russia, 1826 (NYPL b14896507-441398).tiff' and then 'Russia, 1828 (NYPL b14896507-441479).jpg'

To summarise, ...385 to ...397 is followed by ...478, ...398 and ...479.

I've just realised that the .jpg files interrupt the numerical sequence of .tiffs although they all use exactly the same numbering scheme. Is there a reason for this? Can the files be displayed in strict alpha-numerical order?

Also, the category name is a poor translation of the Russian Униформа русской армии при Николае I в коллекции Винкёйзена. I suggest it should be re-named as 'Uniforms of the Russian Army under Nicholas I in the Vinkhuijzen collection'. I imagine there are many more like these. I normally edit on English WP. MinorProphet (talk) 09:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Regular sorting for these files has been overridden by setting a DEFAULTSORT consisting of the letters "NYPL" + the "NYPL catalog ID" plus the "Image ID" – which for this category in turn has been overridden by just the two IDs with a colon in-between:

{{DEFAULTSORT:NYPLb14896507.27197}}
[[Category:Images uploaded by Fæ|NYPLb14896507.27197]]
[[Category:Military uniforms of Russia by Nicholas I by Vinkhuijzen collection|b14896507.27197]]

Whoever did that probably had a reason for that – whether that was a good reason is another question. To just have them sorted by file name, you would have to remove the {{DEFAULTSORT:NYPLb14896507.27197}} as well as the |b14896507.27197. --El Grafo (talk) 10:09, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your helpful reply. However, if I edit Category:Military uniforms of Russia by Nicholas I by Vinkhuijzen collection all I see is

{{ru|1=Униформа русской армии при Николае I в коллекции Винкёйзена.}}
[[Category:Vinkhuijzen:Russia]]
[[Category:Military uniforms of Russia by Nicholas I]]

What am I missing? Where is the Defaultsort etc. which you kindly pointed out? Thanks, MinorProphet (talk) 15:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@MinorProphet: In the descriptions of the individual files. So if you go to File:Russia, 1826 (NYPL b14896507-441385).tiff and choose "Edit", the bottom of the editable text is what El Grafo quoted above. --bjh21 (talk) 16:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Argh, there's only 931 of them in this category alone. I imagine it could be automated, but I fear I'm just not that fussed. Anyway, now I know how it works, and thanks all for your swift and knowledgeable assistance. MinorProphet (talk) 17:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Commons Gazette 2024-02

Volunteer staff changes

In January 2024, 1 sysop was elected. Currently, there are 187 sysops.

• User:TheAafi was elected (40/0/0) on 11 January.

Other news

The Toolforge Grid Engine platform is scheduled to be stopped on 14 February. All tools running on it, such as Commons:CropTool, will stop.

---

Edited by RZuo (talk).

---

Commons Gazette is a monthly newsletter of the latest important news about Wikimedia Commons, edited by volunteers. You can also help with editing!

--RZuo (talk) 12:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Voting in Technical needs survey

Hi!

I would like to remind you of participating in the voting for proposals in the Technical needs survey. Happy voting! --PantheraLeo1359531 😺 (talk) 17:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Notification of DMCA takedown demand — Fireworks at Land's End

In compliance with the provisions of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and at the instruction of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal counsel, one or more files have been deleted from Commons. Please note that this is an official action of the Wikimedia Foundation office which should not be undone. If you have valid grounds for a counter-claim under the DMCA, please contact me.

The takedown can be read here.

Affected file(s):

• File:Fireworks at Land's End .jpg (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

To discuss this DMCA takedown, please go to COM:DMCA#Fireworks at Land's End . Thank you! Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) 23:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Notification of DMCA takedown demand — 2010 Winter Olympics Canada clebrating hockey gold medal

In compliance with the provisions of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and at the instruction of the Wikimedia Foundation's legal counsel, one or more files have been deleted from Commons. Please note that this is an official action of the Wikimedia Foundation office which should not be undone. If you have valid grounds for a counter-claim under the DMCA, please contact me.

The takedown can be read here.

Affected file(s):

• File:2010 Winter Olympics Canada clebrating hockey gold medal.jpg (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

To discuss this DMCA takedown, please go to COM:DMCA#2010 Winter Olympics Canada clebrating hockey gold medal. Thank you! Joe Sutherland (WMF) (talk) 23:51, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

February 02

Curly apostrophe and COM:FR#FR6

I have just declined the rename request of File:Electronic Core Module of NASA’s Ingenuity helicopter.png.

Dawnseeker2000’s rationale was “Title contains curly apostrophe which has been broken by semi-automated tools on Ingenuity (helicopter) four times in the last month by several editors”. (See Ingenuity (helicopter))

Now I’m wondering if should have renamed it. Indeed, COM:FR#FR6 ignores curly apostrophes. Any thoughts? RodRabelo7 (talk) 08:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@RodRabelo7: I'd go for creating a redirect at the straight-apostrophe name. That way it won't matter which one the article uses. --bjh21 (talk) 11:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Or mayme users like Trappist the monk should stop running sloppy scripts? (diff) --Watchduck (quack) 14:25, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

File:1cm. cartesian.svg

Hello, I left a message on the bistro francophone and was advised to talk about it here.

In the footer of this file it says "papergraph.com, CC by-sa-nc 3.0 ...". The file seems to have been uploaded by its owner but the licence on the image (CC by-sa-nc 3.0) is not consistent with the licence indicated by the template (CC by-sa 3.0), probably because Commons does not allow files to be uploaded under a CC by-sa-nc licence. So, should we delete this file because it's not free, or is the pattern so simple that it's considered to be in the public domain? Pamputt (talk) 08:55, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Not copyrightable. But also possibly not worth keeping? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Probably worth keeping, certainly not copyrightable. - Jmabel ! talk 20:36, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Actually, the other files from this user also have this copyright footer. So I think the decision should apply to all these files. Pamputt (talk) 23:07, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Dust Storm in Rolla, Kansas

• 
• 

Hi, What's the date of this picture? Some sources date it from April 14, 1935, and others date it from May 6, i.e. [1], [2], [3]. I wonder if there isn't a confusion with this famous picture. Thanks, Yann (talk) 16:17, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Yann: I've figured it out.

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/archives/collections/franklin/index.php?p=digitallibrary/digitalcontent&id=3054

The caption is a LETTER written May 6, but the PHOTO was taken April 14. The FULL caption read

"Rolla Kansas, May 6-35. Mr. Franklin D. Roosevelt. Washington DC. Dear Mr. Roosevelt, we are mailing you a picture of the dust storm which came April 14-35. This was a northeast wind and darkness came. When this hit us the sun was shining bright and darkness was coming on at 3 o'clock in the evening. Taken from the water tower one hundred feet high. Yours truly, Chas. P. Williams. Rolla Kansas."

But because the caption was abridged, there's confusion. Adam Cuerden (talk) 07:18, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

February 03

Wiki Loves Folklore 2024 has started, Join us!

Hello Village pump, Greetings from the Wiki Loves Folklore International Team!

Wiki Loves Folklore is an international photography contest hosted on Wikimedia Commons to document folklore and intangible cultural heritage from around the world, such as folk festivals, folk dances, folk music, folk activities, folk games, folk cuisine, folk wear, folktales, folk games, folk religion, mythology, and many more.

The campaign invites participants to document photographs, videos, and audios linked to folk culture and fit within the contest's theme. Through this campaign, you may become a part of a community dedicated to preserving our intangible culture, which has been brought and passed down for thousands of years.

How can I Contribute?

The dates for the submission in the photography contest on Wikimedia Commons are from 1 February 2024 through 31 March 2024. Probably you are wondering how you can take part. It’s simple: grab a camera, record an image, video or audio under the folklore theme and start uploading or Click on Upload Now Icon which is available on right side of Wiki Loves Folklore 2024. To learn more about the rules, check out our Project page on Wikimedia Commons.

Here are the exciting prizes which you can win internationally.

International Prizes

• 1st prize: 400 USD
• 2nd prize: 300 USD
• 3rd prize: 100 USD
• Top 10 consolation prizes: 40 USD (each)
• Best Video prize and best Audio prize: 50 USD (each)
• Top uploader prize for images: First Prize: 300 USD, Second prize: 150 USD
• Wiki Loves Folklore Postcards to top 100 Uploaders
• Certificates and postcards to Local Organizers.

(Disclaimer : The above prizes will only be disbursed in the form of gift card or voucher format only) You can win both International prizes and your local Prizes simultaneously !

If you are interested in participating in the photography campaign, start photographing and collecting media of your local culture and get ready for the photo campaign happening on Wikimedia Commons. For more information about rules and prizes of the contest, refer here. For any questions, email us or join our telegram group here

Warm regards,

Gaurav and Issac

#WeTogether

Wiki Loves Folklore International Team.

Rockpeterson (talk) 08:22, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment I tried to upload an image as a test. Apparently Special:UploadWizard?campaign=wlf_2024 only allows files to be uploaded under CC BY-SA 4.0. Is that correct? RodRabelo7 (talk) 11:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

What to do about wrong arrow heads in SVG?

Arrow heads created in Inkscape have a tendency to look wrong, when the image is rendered as PNG. (Inkscape itself exports a correct PNG, but Commons does it wrong. So does my Ubuntu.) See the image on the right. The heads of the red arrows show three problems: Wrong direction, wrong fill color, and wrong size. (In the SVG both have the same size, but in the PNG the upper one is smaller.) Is there some non-tedious thing I can do to fix this? After all, there is nothing wrong with the other arrows. (Compare this old example with simple code.) Greetings, Watchduck (quack) 14:15, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

I see at least two bad arrows (path17 near "city" and path32 near "port city"). Both use marker-end ConcaveTriangle or a clone of it.

Commons supports SVG 1.1, but the file uses

orient="auto-start-reverse"

which is SVG 2.0. An SVG 1.1 renderer will not understand the keyword, so it will not do the expected rotation.

I changed the keyword to "auto" (which is SVG 1.1).

Glrx (talk) 16:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Glrx: Thanks. So Inkscape generates inconsistent code. Unfortunately I can not just find all "auto-start-reverse" and replace them by "auto", because that would invert the heads at the other end, as seen here. Do you know a safe find-and-replace solution? BTW, I had to replace fill:context-stroke; by the actual color. Is that also too new for SVG 1.1? --Watchduck (quack) 17:52, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Watchduck:

No, I do not know a safe solution. I got lucky with the replacement because it was for marker-end rather than marker-start.

Yes, fill:context-stroke is new for SVG 2.0.

Glrx (talk) 03:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Commons:Editor's index to Commons

I recently made some updates and additions to Commons:Editor's index to Commons (a.k.a. COM:Glossary). I suspect there is a lot more undocumented jargon, outdated info (until just now, it still talked about "OTRS" instead of "VRT"), etc. There are also some ill-formed anchors, etc. It would probably be quite useful for a few other people to have a go at it. - Jmabel ! talk 19:52, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Victorian Turkish baths

If you ave either knowledge of or interest in Victorian Turkish baths (or would just like to put in some time helping a user who seems expert on their topic, but not on Commons) your help would be very much appreciated at Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/02/Category:Victorian Turkish baths. We seem to have a user who is a legitimate subject matter expert, but with very little knowledge of Commons. We need someone who can either guide him through properly setting up this category (and possibly subcategories) or just take over and do it themself (or somewhere between the two). I noticed the problematic category in the midst of doing a broad cleanup of parentless categories, but I don't think I bring more to this than a random knowledgeable Commons user. Thanks in advance. - Jmabel ! talk 19:57, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

February 04

Timed Text from automatic speech recognition

Hi Commons, is it generally desirable to have timed text (closed captions) for time based media (Video, Audio) generated from automatic speech recognition (ASR) like OpenAI's Whisper? Is there a way to mark such timed texts as machine-generated? Thanks in advance. Rillke^(q?) 10:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

When transcribing a video, for example, is there any way to generate the time (like 00:02:16,612 --> 00:02:19,376), instead of having to synchronize it manually? 2804:14D:5C32:4673:C7BD:4252:668A:7518 20:08, 4 February 2024 (UTC)